38: Allora Dannon and Camille Le Baron (Christmas comedy recommendations)

In this episode writers Allora Dannon, Camille Le Baron and Danielle Krage share their Christmas comedy recommendations. They discuss TV series, films and books that capture the holiday spirit with a Christmas twist. Whether you love Christmas or not, there’s something for everyone in these recommendations.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and How They Met. (Plus, shoutout to the brilliant Temeraire series by Naomi Novik)

01:48 Introducing Allora and Camille

03:00 Recommendation: Home for Christmas (Norwegian series)

05:34 Recommendation: The Spirit of Christmas (film)

08:03 Recommendation: Love Actually (film)

12:03 Recommendation: Twas the Nightshift Before Christmas, Adam Kay (book)

20:43 Recommendation: Little Women (book/1994 film version)

26:02 Recommendation: Le père Noël est une ordure/ Father Christmas is a Stinker

37:08 Social media, online presence and more

You can find Allora here:

https://www.tiktok.com/@alloradannon

https://www.instagram.com/alloradannon

And Camille here:

https://www.instagram.com/camillelbauthor

CLICK HERE FOR TRANSCRIPT

Danielle (00:00.578)

Today, I have two of my writer friends with me, Allora and Camille, and we are going to share some Christmas recommendations, which I’m super grateful for, because, heads up listeners, I am not a very Christmasy person. I have very mixed feelings about the holiday season and have a long time, as some people might. So that’s just to say, everyone’s welcome. Whether you love Christmas, not so much, all good, because we’ll have some really fun recommendations. Comedy makes everything better.

Camille (00:08.317)

Mm-hmm.

Danielle (00:27.994)

And I’ve got two lovely people to help me out and make a nice spectrum to choose from. Fefore we dive in, I thought it might be useful to say how we met, just because if I went back like less than two years ago, I was literally that person on the internet Googling, how do I make writer friends?

Allora

We’ve all been there.

Danielle

Yes. And it was really not apparent to me. And I, I tried a lot of things, a lot of things didn’t work, but I found these two lovely humans and way more.

Allora and I actually met in a Scottish castle, which was super fancy at a writing retreat.

Allora (01:03.528)

So magical. Even saying it out loud, so magical.

Danielle:

Yeah. It was a wonderful writing retreat organized by writers Maggie Stiefvater, Sarah Batista- Pereira and Anna Bright. Camille, I met online through Laini Taylor’s Patreon.

I literally posted a sad little message in the Discord that was like, I’m coming to London in a few weeks. Would anyone like to meet me for a writing date? And Camille was sweet enough to reply. And we’ve taken it from there.

So just to say, there’s always hope, however young, old, experienced, inexperienced you are, there are lovely writer humans out there who do want to be your friend and I’m very lucky to have them come and celebrate Christmas in November with me here. We’ll release the show for you in December. So you’ll get some great picks.

So that was a very short introduction to you both. I’d love you to let people know, starting with you, Allora, who you are and what you get up to.

Allora (01:57.912)

Well, I’m Allora Dannon. I live in upstate New York in the good old US of A. I love obviously writing, reading. I feel like we all have that in common here. But in addition, I also have an odd obsession with Elvis and dragons. And I love writing fun adventure stories for women, specifically over the age of 30. I feel like there’s a huge gap in fun stories, like all the good things happen to the youths and that’s it. So I love those stories, but I feel like there’s room for more. And it’s something I’m deeply passionate about. So writing fun stories is something Danielle and I connected over. And we’re going to make bringing it into the world more.

Danielle (02:48.547)

Yeah. And we connected over talking about dragons as well, Temeraire. And actually I saw on your Instagram, Camille, as well, that you also love that series.

Allora (02:53.228)

Classic.

Camille (02:57.086)

I have reread it twice this year. It’s really embarrassing. She’s a queen. It’s so good Love her.

Danielle (02:59.19)

Naomi Novak. So not Christmasy, but extra special. We’re slipping in an extra pick for you right at the beginning. So good.

Allora (03:00.5)

It’s so good. Iconic. Mm-hmm.

Allora (03:06.78)

It’s outstanding. And the audiobook is outstanding, too, if you’ve never listened to it. It’s so good. Oh my gosh, the narrator does all the voices incredibly. It’s fantastic. Heads up.

Camille (03:19.739)

Oh wow. Okay, that’s a dangerous recommendation, but I will follow it.

Allora (03:25.346)

Yeah!

Danielle (03:25.926)

And I will also say quickly, if you don’t also normally think of yourself as a fantasy dragon person, I still highly recommend it. The characters are so good. I cried in it, I laughed in it. Oh, it was so sweet, yeah. So.

Camille (03:39.186)

I think that’s true of all of Naomi’s Novik’s work. If you’re not into fantasy at all, it’s a very good introduction to the genre.

Danielle (03:49.182)

I agree. And can you tell us about you before we share our Christmas picks?

Camille (03:52.122)

Oh, I feel like Allora’s intro was so good. I’m going to fail at this, but my name is Camille. I am a French person living in London in UK. I basically moved around my whole life. And when I settled in London five years ago, I decided this was it. Even if at the beginning, the city was really hard. I was like, I’m going to make it work. And actually I really love it now here. I have a very boring project manager day job.

And in my free time, which is most of it, I just write and read. I’m trying to make, I’m on this journey of a writer’s journey. So I now have an agent and the next step is hopefully publishing. My focus is mostly, I mean, I’m a lover of fantasy, but it’s not what I started writing. Basically, the stories that come out of me are contemporary. And I totally hear what you’re saying, Allora, stories for women past their 30s. So I’m writing women’s fiction, and it’s actually about that, it hinges on that age where you kind of are told like your fun years are over and you’re supposed to have it all figured out. But actually I’ve felt, at least personally, there’s a lot of taboos and things that are unresolved by that point and that need to be discussed. And I very much think I’m taking it under the guise of humour because that’s how I deal with a lot of issues in my life.

So that’s a very short summary. And yeah, dragons, I love cats. Is that a good thing to say? I don’t know. My dream is to become an old cat lady and that is pretty much the short summary of me.

Danielle (05:25.374)

Mmm, Christmas cats, love them.

Allora (05:26.136)

That’s the way.

Danielle (05:34.112)

Oh, I love it. So you can see why I’m friends with these two wonderful women.

Allora (05:37.484)

Absolutely. That was like a shared heart string right there.

Danielle

Yeah. Totally. And actually, it leads quite nicely into my first pick. My first pick is Home for Christmas, which is a TV series that was shown on Netflix. It’s Norwegian. I love, love the Norwegian accents. They’re so musical and so beautiful. And it deals with a lot of the themes that you’ve already been talking about in that the main character, Johanna played by their wonderful, wonderful Ida Elise Broch, she is 30 and the first episode is called The big Christmas lie. Because basically her family are being super nosy, super pressuring about what’s happening with her personal life. She’s 30, like what’s going on with her relationships.

She tells a lie that she has a boyfriend and then she sets out on this kind of quest to find one by the Christmas dinner. So there is that kind of ticking clock effect. But what I really like is that she is not at all painted as this sad desperate person who needs a person to complete them. She is fabulous. Like she is brilliant, kicking ass at her job. She works in the hospital. She has a lovely relationship with her flatmate, they are a really funny female pair.

She has really funny friends and it’s more just this family pressure and this sort of mess that she gets herself into. So it might be just my take on it, but I felt it was about friendship and belonging as much as it was anything to do with the different dates.

Tons of physical comedy, which I really like. And it is that thing where, like it does have…that sort of like, she is wearing really nice jumpers. A lot of the time I was like, she’s wearing lovely Christmassy jumpers. I want to look as cool as her. It has that nice sort of warm cozy feel, but it’s not super shiny, which works for me because I don’t always do well with super shiny. So like there’s the Christmas market, but she does something very untypically feminine at the Christmas market, which I won’t tell you what it is if you haven’t seen it. Um, but it’s very funny, very comedic.

And there’s a sleigh ride, but it’s not like this…oh, it’s all lovely, sleigh ride. The person that she’s with has a body that’s doing what bodies do. And so everything is undercut by being very human and very flawed as well. So last thing I’ll say about it is that there is a very cliffhanger-y ending at the end of season one. It literally ends with her opening the door and you wondering who it’s going to be. But the good thing is now season two is already out. So you don’t have to wait like I did. I had to wait in torture discussing it with people being like, who was at the door? But it’s really fun. I really recommend it. A really great female character.

Camille (07:59.586)

Did you guess right on who was at the door?

Danielle (08:25.014)

It was who I wanted it to be, but not who I thought it was going to be. So I kind of guessed wrong, but I got my wish. So yeah, that was good. So that’s my first recommendation. So next we’re going to go to Allora for your first recommendation.

Allora (08:42.62)

I’ll start off with The Spirit of Christmas, which is made for TV, like a Hallmark-esque movie. So it’s set up to be like, you know, this cheesy romance about this big lawyer, Kate, who lives in the big city, and she’s sent to a small New England inn right before Christmas with orders that you have a big promotion on the line. And if you can sell this inn within three weeks before the new year, the promotion is yours, the hiccup is though, the inn is haunted and everyone who’s tried to sell it, they always run into this ghost.

My sisters and I have always loved this movie because it does have some of those like kind of cheesy,  romance tropes, especially for a Christmas movie, but it’s also a murder mystery. Like you’re trying to figure out, you know, she meets the ghost. There’s a lot of tongue-in-cheek humour because he was murdered in like the 1800s. He doesn’t know who killed him, but he comes back every Christmas to this inn where he died, but for three weeks, he has a body. So he can be touched, kissed, you know, for three weeks. And then he goes, you know, vanishes into the cosmos after that for the rest of the year. So he doesn’t want to be creepy. So there’s a lot of humour in him being like, he wants to be a gentleman.

Danielle (09:53.17)

Ooh, okay.

Allora (10:08.928)

You know, like he’s like a gentleman ghost and he doesn’t want to necessarily terrify anyone but also…. get out of this inn, I don’t want you to sell it. This was my home. I don’t want anything to happen to it.

So Kate’s character is very skeptical. She does have a wonderful career. It does sort of fall into the trope of, you know, she’s only a career woman and she needs to have her heart softened, which is, you know, mixed messaging, but it’s okay. You can swallow it. But she very quickly gets behind, she gets caught up in the mystery of, well, how did you die? And there’s also the tragedy of, they’re starting to have feelings, but he’s also dead. And do they save him? Who did it? It’s just such an unusual Christmas romance in that it’s not overly creepy, even though there’s ghosts, but there’s this mystery.

And then there’s also all this very sarcastic humour. Like at one point, the ghost is saying…you know, I’m cursed. I don’t know why this happened to me, but I’m cursed. And she’s like, did you meet a witch? And he’s like, witches aren’t real. And she’s like, yeah, okay. So that’s where we draw the line at like believability. Like, of course, witches aren’t real. Like, you know, you’re a ghost telling me this. But it’s just, it’s so much fun. It has a really unexpected ending. Like it does not end at all how you’re expecting it to. And just kind of really weaves in, like somehow, even though you’re solving a death, it’s just funny in some way. It’s just unexpected from start to finish. One of my favourites.

Danielle (11:40.139)

I haven’t seen that. Have you seen that, Camille?

Camille (11:43.227)

I haven’t seen that. I mean, I know your second pick, Allora, obviously, but I haven’t seen any of these picks and I’m very excited to dig in.

Danielle (11:49.245)

Yeah, that sounds so fun. Ghost, murder mystery. I love it. That’s a great recommendation. That sounds right up my street. Thank you. So over to you, lovely Camille.

Camille (12:03.138)

So I think, I’ll be honest, I panicked when we went for the Christmas theme because I am not a Christmas person. Like I love family Christmas and that’s for me what Christmas represents. But the holidays in general are just so loaded for many different reasons. And I’ve never been much of a seasonal movie person or book for that matter. But there’s this movie which is a classic.

My two picks actually are classics, but the first one is Love Actually, which is a British comedy classic. And I think part of the reason I love it so much it was my introduction to British humour. It’s 20 years old. I was probably much younger when I first saw it. And it is definitely how I discovered what British humour is and can be, which is, you know, it’s a lot of tongue in cheek. So, I mean, for a lot of people who might not know what Love Actually is about. It is a British romantic comedy that basically follows an ensemble cast and 12 different plot lines towards… in preparation of Christmas. And there’s tons of different lines.

There’s, you know, the wannabe rock and roll star and his agent. There’s the widower dealing with his stepchild. There’s…a ridiculous romance plotline of two actors that are basically in charge of just being the light people before the actual actors come in. And they’re just, that’s how they meet. There’s a ridiculous plotline where two characters don’t speak the same language, but they still somehow fall in love. And I mean, some of it is beautiful, some of it is tragic. There’s a reference to cheating and there’s reference to death. And what I love about it is that it shows at least, from my impression, it shows about the roundness of the human experience, which can be so dark and it can be so fun. And I think it’s also how the movie starts. It literally starts by saying, by my understanding, when 9-11 happened, all the people on the plane called their loved ones. And it’s, I think it just shows how, no matter how difficult life can get, love is all that matters.

And I also love that it shows how…It doesn’t speak only to romantic relationships. You have this crazy rock and roll star, and at the end he realizes the most important relationship is his life, is his agent. And I do like that, that I mean, it talks about obviously romantic love, but it talks about other relationships. And I guess I’m also a sucker for ensemble cast and stories that weave together and that are connected. It is very tongue in cheek.

I think also it’s a 20 year old movie, which means that some jokes haven’t aged well. I was reflecting on this. There’s probably a bit of fat phobia in it that I wanna be conscious of that. But I mean, for me, it’s just a brilliant story. And if there’s ever a movie I wanna sit down and watch for Christmas, it’s gonna be that one. Also, the music is so good. And for me, that is such a big part of it.

So yeah, I don’t know. It’s cheesy, it’s absurd, but I love it. And it is, for me, it’s the optimum of British humour.

Danielle (15:34.886)

Oh, you’ve really sold it to me because I’ve actually never seen it. I feel terrible saying that because it’s such an iconic movie and I’ve seen shows that have referenced it. Like in Ted Lasso, they did a scene where I was like, what are they doing? And my husband was like… that’s a Love Actually reference. But the way you’ve described it, because I also love ensemble casts. And I also, I think partly as well, that’s one of the things I love about comedy, and previous guests have talked about this, is that you get to have that like whole social group.

Camille (16:02.858)

I love that.

Danielle (16:03.874)

You do get to see those different people and things. And it’s not just that like the romcom of the pair. Yeah.

Camille (16:09.754)

Yeah, I think I personally love when it’s multiple storylines. And maybe it’s because I admire the ability of the writers to weave it all together and just create emotion. I just think it’s a brilliant movie. And for one, for me, it embodies a Christmas spirit because, again, it shows what Christmas can be beyond what we have as a vision. I will say it’s also about human tragedy. There are plot lines that are very difficult. And I think maybe that’s also it. It can be dark humour, and I am someone who likes to treat dark topics with humour. And so probably that’s what I love from that story as well.

Danielle (16:51.566)

Yeah, that totally makes sense. And that leads right onto my next pick, which is…so for people who are watching, you can see, I can never figure out how to angle things, T’was the Night Shift Before Christmas, which is Adam Kay’s book. And some people might know him from his other book, This Is Going to Hurt, which was a bestseller. And they’re all diaries from his time as a doctor.

So he is now a writer full time and he’s been very successful with his live shows and as a TV writer, but he was a working doctor for a long time. And this book, T’was the Nightshift Before Christmas is taken from the shifts that he worked over the Christmas period as a doctor. And, usually I’m not really good with medical things, I actually don’t even watch most medical shows on TV because I can’t stand it.

Allora (17:48.32)

Same. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Squeamish. Yep.

Danielle:

I’ve got like this reflex thing…Even a little bit of blood and my ears buzz. I feel really faint. And there’s been different books before that I’ve listened to on audio where I’ve literally had to pull over to a layby before now because I felt so faint listening to… like a torture scene or things. I just can’t hack it. But this book, because it is so well written and the comedy is so good.

His descriptions are brilliant. It’s so concise. The analogies are fantastic. And there’s…I would say it’s very high on the humour for the dark end, but still with the heart of someone who clearly cared about their patients. So actually I was able to read it and really, really enjoyed it. And…I read it out loud. That’s how I do quite a lot of my reading. If I’m heading to the same place as my husband, he drives and I read out loud. So I read this out loud. It’s a really short little read. And at points, both of us with some of the descriptions, were both just yelling because it’s like… Oh no, but it’s again…that like tension release. And it wasn’t maudlin or morbid. It was just very real.

And also, I love how you expressed it Camille, the thing about that full human experience. Because also some of it was he was delivering babies. And it is that thing, like at Christmas, not all life stops.

I was a Christmas baby and like humans are humans. So sometimes Christmas is lovely and the turkey turns out perfectly. And other times, like both my mom and my dad, they were divorced, but would both tell the story from different angles of… because I was born at Christmas.

My Mum was in the hospital with me. My dad was sent to go and get all the Christmas stuff. He went to the pub to celebrate my birth, celebrate quite heavily, and he left all the Christmas dinner in the taxi. So when my mom got back, there was nothing to cook. She was mad. And it’s that thing where it’s like humour is so great because looking back, I think it’s quite a funny story. At the time it might not have been, and they did get divorced, so maybe it wasn’t that funny, but it’s like…Christmas isn’t always perfect.

And he really covers like the full spectrum of babies being born and named and it being really joyful. People being lonely without family, people having very serious injuries, people having to work, not everyone has Christmas off. So for…again, I don’t want to bring the vibe down too much, but for all of us that love the fact you can bring comedy to all the realness, it’s a really delightful book. And oh my goodness, he’s just such a brilliant writer. Hats off. One of the…best diary based books and some of the best descriptions in anything that I’ve ever read, just so good, sticks in my head, absolutely nailed it. And very, very funny. I did literally laugh out loud. So that’s my final recommendation. Over to you, Allora.

Allora (20:43.548)

My other recommendation is, it’s iconic in its own right, the book and specifically the 1994 version of Little Women by Louisa May Alcott. I was homeschooled as a kid and my mom was huge into like us reading classics and also specifically reading books before we saw the movies. And I was very, I love to read, but I was very grumpy reading like Shakespeare or Dickens. I was very grumpy like, 12 and 13 year old, like, why can’t I just read normal books? By the time we got to Little Women, I feel like it was the first time as a young reader I saw myself in a book and it’s….for those who don’t know Little Women, it’s a semi-autobiographical work by Louisa May Alcott. It follows the life of main character Jo March and the other three March sisters living with their mother during the American Civil War.

And it follows them growing up, so kind of leaving their girlhood and entering into the early stages of their womanhoods and facing adulthoods and all those different ways. So it’s very much a coming-of-age story, very much a romance. Jo is a prolific writer. She loves writing very wild stories. And then her sisters act them out. It’s such a good book. And I know probably so many writers identify with Jo. She kind of finds her voice as an author. And also, she falls in love. It’s such a sweet romance. But for me, as I was watching as a younger person, I couldn’t get over how funny it was, the antics of the sisters. They all become friends with the rich neighborhood boy who’s in the movie played by Christian Bale, young Christian Bale, oh my gosh.

But I think it was my realization that we get so much from classic works of literature, but this is the first time I saw myself in a character and also her aspirations. She wants to be a writer. She follows that dream all the way through. As far as it connecting to Christmas, this comes out much more, I feel like, in the 1994 version of this movie, the whole beginning part of Little Women is set during winter, their father’s away at war. They’re kind of like in genteel poverty, so they don’t have much this family, but their mother is a very charitable person, trying to look out for other people, and it’s a sense of charity that she wants to impart upon her daughters. And I’m with you, Christmas can be such like… It can be a difficult time, no matter if you… I do love Christmas, but for me it’s always been like… It’s constantly changing.

I come from a very big family, so how Christmas changes as everyone gets older can be difficult. And what I loved was seeing how in this story, these girls transition to adulthood, their lives evolve, but they always treat their family unit with such, it’s such an important role in their lives no matter where they go. And I loved seeing that in the movie.

It’s funny, like the banter between the sisters, like they fight, they get into fights with Laurie the neighborhood boy, like they fall in love, they grow up, just all the different versions of their life, but for some reason it being set in the beginning at Christmas has always cemented it in my mind as a Christmas movie. And it kind of bringing in like how family dynamics work. A big part of Christmas for me too was my mom.

The day brave little 12 year old, Allora, confronted her mother being like… did you lie to me about Santa? I like held on to that for a long time. And literally she made me feel like this big cause she was just like…there is a spirit of Christmas that overcomes like the world. Like what do you think makes people go out of their way to be kind or sweet or give presents to wrong kids questioning their parents?

Danielle (24:44.269)

Oh!

Allora (25:04.448)

Like there is this spirit of generosity that is so prevalent in this holiday. Like it can be sad, but there’s also this on the plus side, there’s also this sweetness to it as well in certain aspects. And that kind of spirit of Christmas was also something that was so strong for me in the film version of Little Women. And I do love the newer version too, like obsessed with it, right? It’s a beautiful movie. But for me, the 1994 movie came a little bit closer to the book adaptation. And because I grew up with it, I’m really super fond of it. It’s a fun study. It’s fantastic.

It’s a star-studded cast, like Winona Ryder, Christian Bale are in it. Claire Danes, young Kirsten Dunst, there’s so many people in it. But just following the dreams, Christmas spirit, family relations, it’s such, oh, it’s so iconic in so many ways, but oh, it’s such a place in my heart forever.

Danielle (26:02.114)

Oh, I’m gonna have to go and watch it, because I’ve seen the newer one, the Greta Gerwig one, but I haven’t seen that version. Have you seen it, Camille?

Camille (26:09.262)

No, I definitely remember the Greta Gerwig one. And it is such a good pick, Allura. Now you’re making me want to go see Christian Bale, a younger version of it.

Allora (26:19.136)

Yes, let me tell you. And it is, I will say, this is a spoiler, but Little Women is like hundreds of years old….Jo doesn’t end up with Laurie, right? Like that’s the huge thing. When she turns down young Christian Bale, you’re like, are you sure? Are you sure this is the right choice, Jo? It stings a little bit more. But still, they’re amazing. It’s an amazing movie, love it.

Danielle (26:19.455)

Yeah.

Camille (26:32.914)

Thank you.

Camille (26:44.226)

It’s such a good pick.

Danielle (26:48.086)

And oh I can just see that scene so clearly. I can imagine you at 12 with your mum.

Allora (26:55.321)

Like stomping in like, what do you mean? You’ve been lying. And she’s like, what do you mean? Check yourself. Like, oh, it was good. It was good.

Danielle (27:02.736)

That’s amazing. Yeah, and we’re on to our final pick.

Camille (27:12.666)

Oh, Lord, that was an amazing pick and I want to talk more about it. My final pick is also a cult classic that you won’t have heard of. It’s a French cult classic. So I’m going to bring you back into the 80s and you have this star-studied ensemble of actors that have wrapped themselves up into the Troupe du Splendid. So the Splendid Troupe, a theatre group, and they have done a few comedy movies and they are also doing this theatre show called Le Père Noël est une ordure, which translates to Santa Claus is a Stinker. Or actually, it actually translates to Santa Claus is garbage, but they did a polite translation of it.

And it was a success on the theatre, so they decided to make a movie out of it, which was not popular. We’re in the 80s and it’s quite controversial to call Santa Claus garbage and even if these are star-studded casts for France, it’s just it’s off-the-cuff dark humour. It is French humour at its best. And I struggle with French humour because I think French humour is not politically correct and French humour at times can be really problematic and there’s this sense in France of like snobbishness of saying oh well you should…And I mean, that’s a whole other debate. But Le Père Noël et une Ordure is one of these movies that for some reason became a classic in France. It shows every Christmas, it’s on national TV. And even if you’ve not seen it, you know quotes from it. That’s the kind of movie it is. And without going into too much detail, it’s totally absurd.

You need to lose your sense of rationality because I was thinking about it…what the characters do in the movie make no sense. But basically the plot is we are following two, you know, do-gooders, it’s the night of Christmas, and they are at an SOS kind of helpline you would call if you’re in distress of some kind. And they’re clearly bored. She is in love with him, but he is just not noticing any sign. And what follows is just…

I don’t even know how to describe it. Like there’s someone who gets stuck in the elevator shaft. There’s a neighbour that’s like giving terrible food to everyone. There’s like, there’s just so many different aspects to it. It does end with a murder, which is the murder of Santa Claus or someone dressed as Santa Claus. And it does end with them kind of hiding the body. I’m not gonna say more than that. It is not politically correct humour. It is, you need to put it back into the context of the 80s as well. But I think what it tries to show is the hypocrisy of like well-meaning people and confronted with the social realities that they’re not equipped to deal with. I don’t know why it became a classic. It’s just one of these things, I guess, good cast, fun plot lines, funny lines.

And if I were to pick a movie that I could watch on a yearly basis, it would be this one, because it’s one of the ones you forget enough that you rediscover it every time you watch it. It’s not- I would not say it’s an- you don’t get attached to any characters. Like for example, Little Women is a movie where you really are rooting for the characters. I don’t think that in Santa Claus is a Stinker, you’re rooting for anyone because they’re not, none of them are really nice characters. They’re just like caricatures of what society has defined them to be. They’ve been put in boxes. But I think you’re just, you’re just rooting for like, you’re just laughing. Essentially, you’re just laughing at the absurdity of life, I suppose. It’s had a few reinterpretations, mostly in theatre.

I didn’t even check if you could watch it in the US or in the UK, but it’s definitely something if you want to watch French humour, this is kind of like the start of French humour and explains why French humour has become French humour today.

Danielle (31:50.494)

I love that. And I’m so excited to find it. I’m sure there’s a way to track it down, even if it’s getting a DVD or who knows what, but that’s so interesting to me. And because… one of the things I love best about like the time I live in, in terms of entertainment, is being able to watch things from around the world. And it’s been one of the things that I love. I know there’s so many…Like we’ve had the writer strikes recently, and there’s all kinds of different things in terms of business models and what Netflix and Amazon are doing. But one of the things I really love is watching shows from around the world that I haven’t seen. So French like…Call My Agent, Family Business, like all these performers that I just would never have seen like wind back, you know, even five years, 10 years. So.

Camille (32:26.806)

Such a good TV series. And I think it’s so important too, because we are so used to, I didn’t realize until I started watching shows from other countries, especially Spanish cinema, how used I am to the Hollywood-esque type of model, and how quickly it closes you into the specific model of writing or storytelling. And it’s because that’s the easiest we can access and all of my humour is very much Hollywood-esque.

But it’s good to see other things too. Spanish cinema is really good for that.

Allora (33:10.92)

And what I love about your recommendation too Camille is like it’s irreverent humour, it sounds like, right? Like I love that.

Camille (33:15.922)

Yes, that’s exactly it. It’s irreverent. And I think I think it’s a good description of French humour. French humour is irreverent. And I think sometimes it takes it too far. But this movie, I mean, again, putting it in its context, it’s I love irreverent humour. Exactly. That’s exactly that’s such a good description. Thank you, Allora.

Danielle (33:32.814)

Hmm, yeah, that is good. And I know different people have different takes, but I am someone that still likes to watch things in the context that they were made. And also, because I think, like particularly, the people who listen to the show are writers and creators, so are really thoughtful, analytical people who understand that it was made at a certain time and can even find that interesting and be like, that’s interesting that that’s moved on. Like with comedy, you mentioned,

references to weight and how much like that gets used in humour as such an easy target. And it’s interesting to see where we are with that and why that still happens, where it’s improved. And the same with so many stereotypes, so many ways that women are depicted. So not very Christmasy, but just because I have two lovely smart women, I couldn’t help myself.

Camille (34:25.855)

No, but I think it’s such and I want to touch base on that because Little Women, I think I was reflecting on that… Little Women and also everything written by Jane Austen are still classics to this day. I don’t know that there’s not an adaptation of Jane Austen or Little Women that I would not watch and cry.

Allora (34:47.988)

Yep, I’ll watch them all.

Camille (34:50.134)

I’ll watch them all and I’m like, what is it about these stories that have stood…because I watched Little Women, I mean, context of Civil War, it’s such a different life to what I’m living. It’s such a like I have, I mean, very little in common with these little women. But also, it’s so relatable. And I just, I find it amazing that there are some authors who have managed to stand the test of time and are still really relevant.

Allora (35:23.896)

Such a good point, such a good point. Like what do we have in common with Regency era England anymore, but I will literally watch any adaptation that is Jane Austen related, Little Women related. Like, you know what I mean? Like it’s crazy. It’s a testament to what they created and that we’re able to still find things that speak to us, that’s wild.

Camille (35:32.574)

I know! And do you reckon that it’s humour is my question, because it’s interesting that you talk about humour in Little Woman or is it just a spirit that they’ve carried about like, this is our humanity and let’s make fun of it while also glorify, not make fun of it, but let’s put, like let’s show it in all its full form and it can be humorous and lovable and all these things. I don’t know, I just find that really admirable.

Allora (36:13.336)

Well, that’s an excellent point because I feel like humour can, like comedy can humanize us all. And like I said, like a little 12 year old Allora coming into the classics so grumpily and not seeing herself in David Copperfield. But then opening up Little Women and being like, what? Like, I feel like humour gives a little bit more of a full scope of a person sometimes. Sometimes you’re using it to totally deflect. But in some ways, it’s like a crutch to talk about darker or more sensitive topics. In some ways, it’s like a bridge to who people are. And the fact that you can laugh at that or smile, it’s just such a connection. I think it’s an awesome, awesome point. Awesome, awesome way to look at that.

Camille (37:05.925)

You brought the right pick.

Danielle (37:08.142)

Yeah, I’m very grateful for all your picks today. And I’m genuinely going to go and watch all of them because I haven’t seen them. So, yeah, lucky me. And anyone who’s listening or watching, I hope there’s something in there that you would love to partake of too at this holiday season, whether you’re someone who loves Christmas, not so much, somewhere in the middle, all the things. There’s something for everyone there.

Allora (37:14.196)

I know, I was writing them down as they were talking.

Danielle (37:38.178)

And thank you very much, Allora and Camille, for joining me today. Before we wrap up, starting with Allora, where can people go if they want to come and find you in a nice, friendly way to say hello and Happy Christmas, Allora and see what you’re up to.

Allora (37:47.541)

I love TikTok, I’m on TikTok and on Instagram, but I’m a little bit more prolific on TikTok, but with my handle, my handle is Allora Dannon, just my name.

Camille (37:54.334)

You’re a brave person.

Danielle (37:58.422)

And, Allora is very modest, but Allora is a TikTok star. She is like, I’m not on TikTok, but she is a superstar.

Camille (38:09.246)

That’s so impressive. I admire anyone who has figured out TikTok.

Danielle (38:13.898)

Mm, me too.

Allora (38:14.52)

I don’t know if I figured it out, but we’re just winging it and it’s going okay.

Danielle:

Yeah. And also, so brilliant that again, one of the reasons I really wanted Allora and Camille to to come on is because they are just such fun, honest women…whether it’s social media, or in writing or whatever, sharing their experiences in really fun and honest ways. And Camille, where can people come to find you?

Camille (38:19.971)

I have a TikTok account, but I haven’t posted in so long. I’m, it’s a space where I just, I’m so impressed by the content people create and I’m so scared of it at the same time. I think I’m just scared of things that I can’t control, which is very much all social media. Where I’m most likely to be found is on Instagram, which I’ll give you my handle. It’s Camille Le Baron author, I think.

Camille (39:12.53)

I should know that better. And that’s where you’re more likely to have any news from me and anything like that. But I’m very much someone who’s still figuring out how she wants to be online.

Danielle (39:22.762)

Yeah. And I mean, I love you saying that too. And it’s real. Like for me as well, I am not very good at, or just like… time. Sometimes I’m like… time, what time, how people do it? I don’t know. So, I guess, yeah. So we all have our little areas, I guess, that we love. And for me, it’s  this podcast and getting to have these kinds of conversations and have you all to myself on a session and then get to share you also with other lovely writers who are going about their writer lives.

Camille (39:35.422)

It’s a full-time job.

Allora (39:37.449)

It can be.

Camille (39:43.298)

That’s amazing.

Danielle (39:51.138)

So obviously I’ll put those links in the show notes too, so you can find them there. And to everyone who’s listening or watching, I wish you the warmest, warmest wishes at this time of year, whatever you’re up to. And thank you so much, Allora and Camille.

Camille (40:05.494)

Thank you.